Library images and 0 layer

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gmarie
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Library images and 0 layer

Post by gmarie » Mon Nov 09, 2020 3:07 am

Hi
I'm having issues using library images. I've created my main image (a plan of sorts) which has multiple layers for different elements of the drawing that I may want to show or hide at various times. I now want to add a simple north arrow and some tree symbols to the drawing. I can get these to go in from the library but they always drop onto Layer 0, even when I've tried to get them into their own dedicated 'symbols' layer.... Unfortunately - rookie mistake methinks.. Layer 0 has the original pencil drawing that I then digitized in it so the only way to 'see' my symbols is with the original graph paper drawing visible - not the desired output!

Can I either 'force' the symbols into another dedicated layer? Or somehow duplicate my graph paper drawing into a new layer and then 'clear' it out of Layer 0 so I can have Layer 0 as the symbol layer?

I've seen the thread that discusses layer and block properties but unfortunately it doesn't make any sense to me LOL & I can't get the Properties Editor to allow me to select anything to change the general properties as that tutorial / thread seems to be suggesting.

How should I have done this?

Using Windows 10 64 bit
QCAD Pro V 3.24
Any help much appreciated!
Thank you

CVH
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Re: Library images and 0 layer

Post by CVH » Mon Nov 09, 2020 5:11 am

Hi,
In short, the entities of the library items end up on the layer(s) they were designed on.
A common kind of library items are stored as a block.
See also:
viewtopic.php?f=33&t=7704&p=29957&hilit=library#p29957
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=7642&p=29737&hilit=library#p29737

I presume your problem is with those defined as blocks.
When a single is selected, the Property Editor would read 'Block Reference[1]'
It further displays on what layer and the block name.

To move the block entities themselves you will have to edit the block itself.
or - Double click on the reference
or - Double click on the block name in the Block List
or - Select the block in the Block List and choose 'Edit' (BE)

Now you can move the block entities to your dedicated layer.
Select All (TA) and change the Layer name in the Property Editor

Nothing has really changed going back to Model space.
Except that now the block is defined on the layer of your choice.

Regards,
CVH

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Husky
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Re: Library images and 0 layer

Post by Husky » Mon Nov 09, 2020 8:08 am

gmarie wrote:
Mon Nov 09, 2020 3:07 am
I can get these to go in from the library but they always drop onto Layer 0, even when I've tried to get them into their own dedicated 'symbols' layer....
gmarie wrote:
Mon Nov 09, 2020 3:07 am
Can I either 'force' the symbols into another dedicated layer?
Yes. It depends on your QCAD settings and how the block is created.

Check this video out - would that solution suit your goal?

Work smart, not hard: QCad Pro
Win10/64, QcadPro, QcadCam version: Current.
If a thread is considered as "solved" please change the title of the first post to "[solved] Title..."

CVH
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Re: Library images and 0 layer

Post by CVH » Mon Nov 09, 2020 8:25 am

Husky,

In your video you are putting a block reference on different layers.
Your 'Rectangle' entity/ies themself remain on the layer it/they is/are designed on.

With library items this layer is predefined in the library item.
The question was how move those entities to a different layer.

Regards,
CVH

CVH
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Re: Library images and 0 layer

Post by CVH » Mon Nov 09, 2020 8:59 am

@ gmarie

Also have a look at AppPrefs .. Layer .. Compatibility .. Layer 0

The second option forces the block properties over the layer properties where the Block reference reside.
That would explain why your blocks are displayed with layer 0 properties.

Regards,
CVH

jimherndon
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Re: Library images and 0 layer

Post by jimherndon » Fri Aug 06, 2021 9:27 pm

I just can't make this work. I have tried all these suggestions.
I created blocks on one layer and want to move the inserted blocks to several
different layers so I might hide their visibility for printing.

Why can we not just select a inserted block and change the layer it is on in the
General Property Editor?????

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andrew
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Re: Library images and 0 layer

Post by andrew » Fri Aug 06, 2021 9:34 pm

jimherndon wrote:
Fri Aug 06, 2021 9:27 pm
Why can we not just select a inserted block and change the layer it is on in the General Property Editor?????
That is exactly how it works. Each block reference is on a layer, just like any other entity.

Since you are cross-posting, please read also my reply at:
viewtopic.php?f=32&t=8654

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Husky
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Re: Library images and 0 layer

Post by Husky » Fri Aug 06, 2021 10:01 pm

jimherndon wrote:
Fri Aug 06, 2021 9:27 pm
Why can we not just select a inserted block and change the layer it is on in the
General Property Editor?????
You can!

Select the block, check the Property Editor for the current layer association, if necessary to move the block to an other layer use the drop down menu and chose the appropriated layer.

Husky-2021.08.06-04.png
Husky-2021.08.06-04.png (45.18 KiB) Viewed 5777 times

Just to second Andrews answer ... :wink:
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Win10/64, QcadPro, QcadCam version: Current.
If a thread is considered as "solved" please change the title of the first post to "[solved] Title..."

jimherndon
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Re: Library images and 0 layer

Post by jimherndon » Sat Aug 07, 2021 8:17 am

Andrew, Thank you Sir.

I did a couple of things that made it work.
1. I moved the Blocks to Layer "0" using block edit, selecting all parts of the
Block and setting them to Layer "0" in the Property Editor.
2. Reinserted the Blocks into the correct Layers in the drawing.
3. Set the "Layer "0" behaves differently" option in the Application Preferences
Layer Compatibility.

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Chips&Chips
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Re: Library images and 0 layer

Post by Chips&Chips » Mon Feb 19, 2024 9:34 pm

Layer Compatibility Setting

It says:

Layer 0 behaves differently (best compatibility)
Entities in blocks on layer 0 take on attributes and visibility of block reference.

I am also looking at finding the best way to use library parts in a drawing. Could somebody explain the meaning of this setting better?
Paul A.
SE Texas
Windows 10
QCAD V 3.29.3.0

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Husky
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Re: Library images and 0 layer

Post by Husky » Tue Feb 20, 2024 3:06 am

Considered by CVH as to short and confusing answer - deleted.
BTW - it wasn't meant as explanation for CVH!
Work smart, not hard: QCad Pro
Win10/64, QcadPro, QcadCam version: Current.
If a thread is considered as "solved" please change the title of the first post to "[solved] Title..."

CVH
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Re: Library images and 0 layer

Post by CVH » Tue Feb 20, 2024 5:44 am

Husky wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2024 3:06 am
Well, I can try ..
It means that every entity in a block drawn on layer 0 will adopt the target layer attributes like color, linetype etc.
It is a short answer what does not explain all to me.
Add:
https://www.ribbonsoft.com/en/tutorial- ... ith-layers
https://www.ribbonsoft.com/en/tutorial- ... attributes
Add several other postings on the matter.
What tell me less and only confuses me more.

Entities in a Block definition can have 3 different main attributes types: by Layer, by Block or Custom defined.
A Block Reference inserted in the Block 'Model' can have 3 different main attributes types: by Layer, by Block or Custom defined.
Entities, including Block References, all live on a layer what can be the special treated Layer '0' or not special and any other.
That are 3x3x2 or 18 combinations and not all cases are clearly explained by 'adopt the target layer attributes'.

One can also insert Block References in Blocks other than 'Model' and then we get stacked blocks.
Which increases the combinatorial possibilities by a factor of 3.

Any of my attempts to detect and explain the used attributes ruling for all cases fails up to now.
It all starts with that a Block definition has no attributes, setting entities attributes 'by Block' is then undefined or meaningless.
When inserted as Block Reference then 'by Block' can be interpreted as 'by Block(-reference)' what is an entity with attributes.
All the explanatory trials end in duality.

But I do use mixed attributes with trial and error, without trying to explain why what and why not while it works with others.

Regards,
CVH
Last edited by CVH on Tue Feb 20, 2024 3:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Chips&Chips
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Re: Library images and 0 layer

Post by Chips&Chips » Tue Feb 20, 2024 7:25 am

CVH,

I think I understood you until I reached your last paragraph.

So, as I think I understand it, when you use/insert a PART from the Part Library, you are inserting a BLOCK. AND you are inserting that BLOCK REFERENCE on the current layer. I was wondering why I couldn't select a layer in the Options Toolbar while inserting a BLOCK REFERENCE, but that selection seems to be made in the Layers Box. The elements in that BLOCK may be on other layers, depending on which layer they were created on.

And the elements can have their properties, like color, line thickness, etc., set one way while the overall block can have it's own properties which can be set in a different way. And the elements can take the properties of the BLOCK REFERENCE if their properties are set to "By Block", but will take them from other sources, again as per their settings.

It seems that this is a very versatile system. It is going to take some experimentation and experience to figure out just what is best in different situations.

Playing with this a little. I created a part using layer 0. Drew all the elements there and layer 0 was the active layer when I added a BLOCK ATTRIBUTE. The color of the elements and attribute was set to By Layer for all of that and it's color was set to Black. I saved it to the Part Library.

Then I selected each of three layers in turn and inserted an instance of that part in each layer. These instances are all black, in spite of Layer 1 being red and Layer 2 being green. If I change layer 0 to yellow, all three instances turn yellow. So I guess that while the BLOCKs themselves being on different layers, everything in them is still taking it's color from layer 0.

But then, if I turn layer 0 off, all three are invisible. If I turn Layer 1 off, only the elements of the Layer 1 instance are invisible; the BLOCK ATTRIBUTE remains visible and I can select it and edit it with the Property Editor. The same thing happens with the Layer 2 instance. The BLOCK ATTRIBUTE seems to be on both the layer where the BLOCK instance has been inserted AND on layer 0. This seems strange.

I'm not complaining or suggesting anything. I am just trying to find a good way to work with all of this. I want to draw a schematic circuit diagram on a layer other than layer 0 (Schematic). I want to use library parts in it. I want to use additional elements in it, mostly lines and text. I really would like it if all of my schematic drawing was on ONE layer so I can turn it on or off or change the color or the line widths working with just one layer. Is that possible?
Paul A.
SE Texas
Windows 10
QCAD V 3.29.3.0

CVH
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Re: Library images and 0 layer

Post by CVH » Tue Feb 20, 2024 9:36 am

Chips&Chips wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2024 7:25 am
So, as I think I understand it, when you use/insert a PART from the Part Library, you are inserting a BLOCK. AND you are inserting that BLOCK REFERENCE on the current layer. I was wondering why I couldn't select a layer in the Options Toolbar while inserting a BLOCK REFERENCE, but that selection seems to be made in the Layers Box. The elements in that BLOCK may be on other layers, depending on which layer they were created on.
Correct, the Block Reference is created on the current layer.
Many tools create new entities on the current active layer.
But not using the Library Browser (e.g. all CE users since 3.28.0) ...
... You import the item and can choose between as Block or not, on current layer or not.
Also meaning that we have to be careful in how we explain it to whom.
Chips&Chips wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2024 7:25 am
And the elements can have their properties, like color, line thickness, etc., set one way while the overall block can have it's own properties which can be set in a different way. And the elements can take the properties of the BLOCK REFERENCE if their properties are set to "By Block", but will take them from other sources, again as per their settings.
Less correct, Color, Lineweight and Linetype are referred to as attributes, listed among General Properties.
Attributes are/may be related to layers too, other entity properties do not.
A Block has no similar attributes, no General Properties, a Block Reference does like any other drawing entity.
... For Block's there exist visibility and a few (hidden) internal ones.
A Block(definition) is a collection of entities, a Block(reference) is a drawing entity that displays a copy of the entities making up the Block(definition).
Chips&Chips wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2024 7:25 am
But then, if I turn layer 0 off, all three are invisible. If I turn Layer 1 off, only the elements of the Layer 1 instance are invisible; the BLOCK ATTRIBUTE remains visible and I can select it and edit it with the Property Editor. The same thing happens with the Layer 2 instance. The BLOCK ATTRIBUTE seems to be on both the layer where the BLOCK instance has been inserted AND on layer 0. This seems strange.
Correct, entities will turn invisible when:
A) the layer of the Block Reference is turned off >> Don't display anything of the block content at all.
B) the layer(s) of the entity(ies) of the Block definition is/are turned off >> Don't display individual entities.


And for the rest I already said that I can't get my mind around attribute ruling. :oops:
Ifso, if it was clear, I would gladly explain it to you. :wink:

Regards,
CVH

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Chips&Chips
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Re: Library images and 0 layer

Post by Chips&Chips » Tue Feb 20, 2024 10:33 am

Thanks!

I have been working on my first schematic diagram - drawing that is. I have been adding Block References from the Library and I experimented with getting everything on my 5Schematic layer. I did succeed with one, but it was a rather long process.

I first changed to layer 0. I'm not sure that was necessary, but that's what I tried.
I placed an instance of a Library part, a connector, on layer 0.
Then I exploded it. That way I was not moving a Block, just the component parts of what was one.
I moved all the pieces to my 5Schematic layer.
Then combined it back into a Block so I could move it about easily.

That seemed to work. But it took some time and if I am going to add multiple Blocks to my drawing, it would be slow going.

For now, although it is not optimum, I am just leaving the Blocks as they are when placed on my 5Schematic layer. Partially on that layer and partially on layer 0.

It seems that with all the versatility in QCAD, there may not be a way to have it work as I would like.
Paul A.
SE Texas
Windows 10
QCAD V 3.29.3.0

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