[solved] Templates appearing in model space - confused beginner

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chrisv
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[solved] Templates appearing in model space - confused beginner

Post by chrisv » Wed Feb 01, 2023 9:50 pm

I'm trying to produce a drawing with (for example) two Layout pages with a different view of the drawing on each. I'm happy with using Viewports and setting up new Layout blocks. However I want to use a template for each of the Layout pages and I'm confused over how this works.

If I create a new drawing with the desired samples from File->New from template... I get a new drawing with a Model space and two Layout spaces. However the Template (border, title, etc.) appears in the Model space. My understanding is that presentation elements like this are in the Layout, not the Model space, i.e. I draw in the Model space then create Viewports to produce views of the drawing in the Layout pages with the template and surrounding information. However this doesn't seem to be the way that the templates are set up - I've had a look through a few tutorials but I'm still completely confused by this. Essentially, my problem is that I expect template elements to be part of the Layout space - but they're in the Model space.

I've clearly got some fundamental misunderstanding but can't see what it is - can anyone explain how I can draw in Model space and project through to templates in Layout space? Or explain why it's not like this?

I'm on QCAD 3.27.1.0 and MacOS 12.6.2
Last edited by chrisv on Thu Feb 02, 2023 6:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Husky
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Re: Templates appearing in model space - confused beginner

Post by Husky » Wed Feb 01, 2023 10:59 pm

Hi, yes it can be confusing until it isn't anymore ...
chrisv wrote:
Wed Feb 01, 2023 9:50 pm
However I want to use a template for each of the Layout pages and I'm confused over how this works.
May I ask why you will use two templates for one drawing? Would it not make sense to use one template with two Layout pages?
chrisv wrote:
Wed Feb 01, 2023 9:50 pm
If I create a new drawing with the desired samples from File->New from template... I get a new drawing with a Model space and two Layout spaces. However the Template (border, title, etc.) appears in the Model space. My understanding is that presentation elements like this are in the Layout, not the Model space, i.e. I draw in the Model space then create Viewports to produce views of the drawing in the Layout pages with the template and surrounding information
I don't know which template your are trying to modify but if the source template has the border, title etc. in Model_Space then it was not primary designed to work with Viewports. It is designed to print directly out of Model_Space.

If you like/need to stick to this sample template select all entities in Model_Space, copy it to the clipboard and paste it in the designated Paper_Space. It has to be 1:1 like the real world physical paper sizes.
chrisv wrote:
Wed Feb 01, 2023 9:50 pm
Essentially, my problem is that I expect template elements to be part of the Layout space - but they're in the Model space.
Yes you are right - for your case of application those entities have to be in Paper_Space. I already explained why there are not ....
chrisv wrote:
Wed Feb 01, 2023 9:50 pm
Essentially, my problem is that I expect template elements to be part of the Layout space - but they're in the Model space.
To avoid further confusion about the terms: EVERYTHING in a template is considered as "template elements". No matter where they are (Model_Space, Paper_Space) or what they are (Entities, Layer, Blocks etc. etc.).

If it is still confusing to you please feel free to ask more question regarding this matter. I'll attache two screenshots (one Model_Space, one Paper_Space) of one of my templates. Please note that all layer, blocks and the two predefined Paper_Spaces are part of this template. Not the drawing itself in Model_Space. This template has all my "most likely" used parts of a drawing already set up in a "New" default drawing.

Husky_2023_02_01-02.png
Husky_2023_02_01-02.png (320.06 KiB) Viewed 1994 times

Husky_2023_02_01-03.png
Husky_2023_02_01-03.png (301.87 KiB) Viewed 1994 times
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chrisv
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Re: Templates appearing in model space - confused beginner

Post by chrisv » Wed Feb 01, 2023 11:33 pm

Firstly, thanks for the prompt and comprehensive reply.
Husky wrote:
Wed Feb 01, 2023 10:59 pm
chrisv wrote:
Wed Feb 01, 2023 9:50 pm
However I want to use a template for each of the Layout pages and I'm confused over how this works.
May I ask why you will use two templates for one drawing? Would it not make sense to use one template with two Layout pages?
Apologies, this is my poor explanation.I should have said that I wanted to use the same template for each of two Layout pages, as you have suggested.
Husky wrote:
Wed Feb 01, 2023 10:59 pm
I don't know which template your are trying to modify but if the source template has the border, title etc. in Model_Space then it was not primary designed to work with Viewports. It is designed to print directly out of Model_Space.
I'm using iso_en_a4_metric_portrait_aec - but basically any simple A4 landscape Metric template would fulfil my requirements for now.

How do I tell whether a template is designed to work with Viewports (other than simply trying it)? Is there a naming convention or something similar?
Husky wrote:
Wed Feb 01, 2023 10:59 pm
If it is still confusing to you please feel free to ask more question regarding this matter. I'll attache two screenshots (one Model_Space, one Paper_Space) of one of my templates. Please note that all layer, blocks and the two predefined Paper_Spaces are part of this template. Not the drawing itself in Model_Space. This template has all my "most likely" used parts of a drawing already set up in a "New" default drawing.
Thanks for these - your screenshots illustrate what I would have expected rather than what I get when using the iso_en_a4_metric_portrait_aec template, which at least gives me the confidence that my understanding isn't completely wrong. Can you tell me if there's a similar readily available template for metric A4 landscape?

Thanks and best wishes,

Chris

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Husky
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Re: Templates appearing in model space - confused beginner

Post by Husky » Thu Feb 02, 2023 12:28 am

chrisv wrote:
Wed Feb 01, 2023 11:33 pm

Thanks for these - your screenshots illustrate what I would have expected rather than what I get when using the iso_en_a4_metric_portrait_aec template, which at least gives me the confidence that my understanding isn't completely wrong.
No, you are not completely wrong!

chrisv wrote:
Wed Feb 01, 2023 11:33 pm
Can you tell me if there's a similar readily available template for metric A4 landscape?
I assume the "iso_en_a4_metric_portrait_aec" already qualifies to be the source of your own template.

Fast forward ..
load "iso_en_a4_metric_portrait_aec.dxf"
delete block "Title block 2 (handy)"
switch all white layer to black below Menu/Misc/Layer/Make all white layer black
switch block "Revision" and "Title" to invisible
select the border in Model_Space
create Block from selection
reference absolute 0,0
name the block Border
switch block "Revision", "Title" back to visible
select everything in Model_Space
Clipboard - Cut with reference, absolute 0,0
Rename Paper_Space Layout 1 into e.g. DIN A4 Metric portrait
Select and edit this block
insert the clipboard content to absolute 0,0 - done

The Viewports are your job ... :wink:

Do the same for a Landscape Paper_Space and you are all set ... :wink:
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chrisv
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Re: Templates appearing in model space - confused beginner

Post by chrisv » Thu Feb 02, 2023 6:57 pm

Thanks Husky, that's just what I needed.

Regards,

Chris

chrisv
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Re: [solved] Templates appearing in model space - confused beginner

Post by chrisv » Sun Feb 05, 2023 11:07 am

One more question...

I've successfully set up the layout in my drawing and can add viewports etc. now.

How do I create additional pages, i.e. duplicate the layout block to give me an additional page with border etc? I've tried Duplicate Block but it doesn't seem to actually do anything, and I presume I don't have to create another block then copy the border manually.

Regards,

Chris

CVH
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Re: [solved] Templates appearing in model space - confused beginner

Post by CVH » Sun Feb 05, 2023 11:24 am

Hi,
Please ask separate questions in separate topics, see the forum rules above
chrisv wrote:
Sun Feb 05, 2023 11:07 am
I've tried Duplicate Block but it doesn't seem to actually do anything,
Duplicate Block (BY) doesn't work for layouts.
You get an error in the Command History reading:
Cannot copy model space block or layout blocks.

But there is a way around when using the PRO version ...
https://qcad.org/rsforum/viewtopic.php?t=9031
And more details on how to add it:
https://www.qcad.org/rsforum/viewtopic.php?t=9508

Remark that it duplicates a layout at that point in time with everything that is shown in the original.

Regards,
CVH

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Husky
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Re: [solved] Templates appearing in model space - confused beginner

Post by Husky » Sun Feb 05, 2023 8:10 pm

chrisv wrote:
Sun Feb 05, 2023 11:07 am
... and I presume I don't have to create another block then copy the border manually.
As you already know - Duplicate Block (BY) doesn't work for layouts.
And yes, right now you have to do it manually what isn't big deal!

Open Edit mode for the Paper_Space you need to copy,
make sure everything you need from this layout block is visible,
select all,
copy with reference (Absolute 0,0) into the clipboard,
Create a new layout block with "Add Layout Block" (BL),
open Edit mode for this new layout block,
insert clipboard content to absolute 0,0 - done.
Work smart, not hard: QCad Pro
Win10/64, QcadPro, QcadCam version: Current.
If a thread is considered as "solved" please change the title of the first post to "[solved] Title..."

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